U18's Whats going on?

[Dino]

Thanks for your reply and your time Liam, ok here are a few questions.

Last season the U18's played in the floodlit league, this year we have 2 U18 teams one in the Floodlit league and one in the NWYA league.
My thoughts and the thoughts of others was that with 2 U18 teams there would be an A & B team, this has been mentioned on here as not being the case.
Given the Floodlit league is only 1 game against the other teams and the NWYA which is a harder league play both home and away would it not have made more sense to have an A & B Team? If not why not?

I fully understand that the kids in the U18 teams will often play for their clubs on the saturday before a NWYA game and as such might not be fully fit or tired, given that the club knew this before we joined the league then I have to ask why did we join a league when it was obvious that most of our players would be playing the day before? To me thats not really the way to be bringing player on is it?

If we are really serious about bringing players on then shouldn't they be asked/told not to be playing the day (or 2 days) before a match, this gives the kids a choice, if they want the chance to get into the 1st team then they should commit fully to the Performance centre shouldn't they?
Last year was different as even though most played for their clubs on a Saturday the floodlit games were on tues or thurs so they had time to recover, and yes most looked a lot sharper last season than they have this year.

Can the Performance centre not stipulate that they come first, and you either leave all other clubs or you dont play? If not why not?

Given the average 17-18yr old will be playing on a sat then having a few beers sat night, its highly doubfull that we will ever have a team that is sucessfull in the NWYA, International players moan about being tired if they have to play 2 games in 4 days, how can we ever expect our youngsters to really perform playing 2 games 24hrs apart? Especially when most are playing in an open age league which can be and is a lot more physical.

Looking through the team sheet (first one i came across) from the floodlit league April last year showed a squad of 28 players, a quick check has shown that at least 18 of that squad have played in the NWYA league this season, and you say there have been 12 (+1) new U18 players this would give a healthy squad of 30+ players for 2 teams, plus a back up of U17's & U16's to fill in any gaps, this should at least give you a solid team and even accounting for injury's or fitness problems there will always be a solid core of 6-8 players that can play every game, as i mentioned previously (and i've only seen the home games this season) we have only had 1 or 2 players that have started every game in the NWYA league matches.

Why have we had at least 29+ different players play in the home games this season?

Where is the consistency that the team should be looking for?

Why is the best defender in the squad (Nathan Waterson) constantly playing up front when poor defending and sloppy mistakes are costing us goals from a defense that is changing for every game and changes at least twice during every game?

I'm all for giving the kids a chance but substitutions seem to follow a set pattern and start 20-25mins after kick off without fail, why so many changes?
As I said before, last sundays match saw 7 substitutions, ok one was putting back on a player that had come off 10 mins previously, and 1 was because a player had picked up a yellow card, but at 2-1 down we were still in the game and the team should have been left alone, any changes should have been made at half time not 25-30mins into a game we were very much still in?

Why are we making so many changes throughout each game?

Why are we making so many squad changes?

Can we not get 2 settled teams to play in each of these leagues? If not why not?

I've not seen any of the floodlit games this season, are we using as many players in that league?

If we have 30+ U18 players then why are we using so many u17 & u16's in the U18 matches

The way i see it is we should have the best 11 players in the NWYA league, the others should be playing in the Floodlit league and making up subs for the NWYA, any gaps should be filled with the better players from the U17's & U16's, isn't that how it should be? Or am i missing something?

If the U16' & 17's are better players than some of the U18's then fair enough give them a chance, but bring them through slowly, the main core of the U18 team last year had been playing together since they were in the U14's, and it showed last year, this year far to many changes and players looking lost some of the time.

I do appreciate the work that goes into the performance centre and what has been achieved, and yes your all doing a good job,I just hope you can turn some of these kids into regulars for the first team and make the centre a steping stone on to being a pro/semi pro footballer for some Barrow youngsters.

I'm just a frustrated fan who's fed up with the disapointing season so far.

[Jo am back]

Thanks for your reply and your time Liam, ok here are a few questions.

Last season the U18's played in the floodlit league, this year we have 2 U18 teams one in the Floodlit league and one in the NWYA league.
My thoughts and the thoughts of others was that with 2 U18 teams there would be an A & B team, this has been mentioned on here as not being the case.
Given the Floodlit league is only 1 game against the other teams and the NWYA which is a harder league play both home and away would it not have made more sense to have an A & B Team? If not why not?

I fully understand that the kids in the U18 teams will often play for their clubs on the saturday before a NWYA game and as such might not be fully fit or tired, given that the club knew this before we joined the league then I have to ask why did we join a league when it was obvious that most of our players would be playing the day before? To me thats not really the way to be bringing player on is it?

If we are really serious about bringing players on then shouldn't they be asked/told not to be playing the day (or 2 days) before a match, this gives the kids a choice, if they want the chance to get into the 1st team then they should commit fully to the Performance centre shouldn't they?
Last year was different as even though most played for their clubs on a Saturday the floodlit games were on tues or thurs so they had time to recover, and yes most looked a lot sharper last season than they have this year.

Can the Performance centre not stipulate that they come first, and you either leave all other clubs or you dont play? If not why not?

Given the average 17-18yr old will be playing on a sat then having a few beers sat night, its highly doubfull that we will ever have a team that is sucessfull in the NWYA, International players moan about being tired if they have to play 2 games in 4 days, how can we ever expect our youngsters to really perform playing 2 games 24hrs apart? Especially when most are playing in an open age league which can be and is a lot more physical.

Looking through the team sheet (first one i came across) from the floodlit league April last year showed a squad of 28 players, a quick check has shown that at least 18 of that squad have played in the NWYA league this season, and you say there have been 12 (+1) new U18 players this would give a healthy squad of 30+ players for 2 teams, plus a back up of U17's & U16's to fill in any gaps, this should at least give you a solid team and even accounting for injury's or fitness problems there will always be a solid core of 6-8 players that can play every game, as i mentioned previously (and i've only seen the home games this season) we have only had 1 or 2 players that have started every game in the NWYA league matches.

Why have we had at least 29+ different players play in the home games this season?

Where is the consistency that the team should be looking for?

Why is the best defender in the squad (Nathan Waterson) constantly playing up front when poor defending and sloppy mistakes are costing us goals from a defense that is changing for every game and changes at least twice during every game?

I'm all for giving the kids a chance but substitutions seem to follow a set pattern and start 20-25mins after kick off without fail, why so many changes?
As I said before, last sundays match saw 7 substitutions, ok one was putting back on a player that had come off 10 mins previously, and 1 was because a player had picked up a yellow card, but at 2-1 down we were still in the game and the team should have been left alone, any changes should have been made at half time not 25-30mins into a game we were very much still in?

Why are we making so many changes throughout each game?

Why are we making so many squad changes?

Can we not get 2 settled teams to play in each of these leagues? If not why not?

I've not seen any of the floodlit games this season, are we using as many players in that league?

If we have 30+ U18 players then why are we using so many u17 & u16's in the U18 matches

The way i see it is we should have the best 11 players in the NWYA league, the others should be playing in the Floodlit league and making up subs for the NWYA, any gaps should be filled with the better players from the U17's & U16's, isn't that how it should be? Or am i missing something?

If the U16' & 17's are better players than some of the U18's then fair enough give them a chance, but bring them through slowly, the main core of the U18 team last year had been playing together since they were in the U14's, and it showed last year, this year far to many changes and players looking lost some of the time.

I do appreciate the work that goes into the performance centre and what has been achieved, and yes your all doing a good job,I just hope you can turn some of these kids into regulars for the first team and make the centre a steping stone on to being a pro/semi pro footballer for some Barrow youngsters.

I'm just a frustrated fan who's fed up with the disapointing season so far.

Have to say if the points you make are valid ,have to fully agree with you.Consistency in team selections is important ,too much chopping and changing has an adverse effect.

[burnzio]

Good to hear about what's going on with the performance centre, sounds like a massive success to me. Especially compared to where we were 5-10 years ago. Just think how good it could be in another 5 years.

[barrowfan_chris]

Good to hear about what's going on with the performance centre, sounds like a massive success to me. Especially compared to where we were 5-10 years ago. Just think how good it could be in another 5 years.

Aye hopefully it will be an academy/or in the process of becoming one by then and we start to see some good local talent in the first team.

[Big E]

A reserve side is a must if we are to see them advance into the 1st XI squad.

I'm sure i've read/heard that eventually they'd like all academy players to be BAFC lads and only play for them as most other pro academies do.

[OfficialYouth]

Dino

In response to the questions you posted regarding the U18 selection process, we have tried to answers your questions as best as we can. Throughout the answer we are not trying to justify the way we select or manage teams might I add, as like the selection process we cannot make everyone happy, but at the present time we are happy with the logistics of selection regardless of opinion.

A and B teams
I am in agreement with your point regarding this, but unfortunately it isn’t that simple. Due to injury/illness/holiday and work commitments, squad selections are not always consistent. If we selected an A and B we would therefore still have movement between each squad, otherwise we would be unable to field a time in a small proportion of fixtures this season, especially on Sundays in the NWYA; an example being the away fixture against Altrincham when the squad had to travel with 11. On the other hand we do understand the difference in standard of both league and we must remember that other sides we play against a fully contracted to their side, rather than playing for another team the day before.

All of the above we have encountered so far this season has led to a large majority of players being used so far in the campaign. We are aware that constant changes are not good, and try and keep squads as similar to the previous week as we can. There have been times when once the squad has been selected during the week, that 5/6+ players have dropped out of the squad for varying reasons before Sunday. In the last 6 NWYA games a total of 21 players have been used. Of these 21 players, 4 have started every game, 8 have started 4-5 games, and a total of 16 of the 21 players have been involved in the squads, either starting or on the bench, for 4 of the 6 games, meaning just 5 have not been regularly involved, with one of these 5 having just come back in the new year from a long term injury. From speaking to the manager, although results may not have improved greatly in this period, despite the squad picking up their first win, performances of the team, in general, have been a lot better, although admittedly the performance against Hyde was not. During this game both substitutions in the 1st half were enforced due to injury. In the others games earlier in the season, there could be a number of reasons for the changes.

The LFA squad usually sees the players who aren’t regularly playing on Sundays play, but due to inconsistencies in availability earlier in the season this has been more mixed, but in the coming weeks with the fixtures coming up, we hope the selection will me more consistent and we also hope to play some of the better U16’s into both the LFA, as they have so far this season, and in the NWYA to give them a taste of the standard they will be expected to play at next season.
In regards to Nathan Waterston, not once did he play as a full back during last seasons games, he was always used in a more advanced role, usually wide midfield, but on occasion through the middle. Jordan Williams has performed consistently at a high standard in the centre of our defence for the majority of the season, we would agree that mistakes, and poor decisions from our defence has cost us goal, you can turn this round by saying if mistakes and poor decisions had not been made higher up the pitch in front of opponents goals, we would have won more games?

Centre and local clubs
Since the formation of the Centre, we have worked extremely hard to firstly rebuild and maintain a good relationship with local clubs, and until things change we work on the policy that “clubs come first”. A recent example is this Sunday, in which the U14 squad will travel to Carlisle Utd missing 7 players due to club commitments in the Lancashire Cup. This shows that the policy stretches beyond the U18 age groups.

This is a topic that divides opinion and Neil Doherty consulted all clubs when forming the Centre, and by carrying through our policy we have helped to build positive links. Referring back to the comments made by Ziggerzagger and Snortypig, I would like to disagree and believe that the majority of managers and clubs are happy in the running of the Centre. They disagreement comes when players who they believe should be in the Centre are not. We must not forget that again this in an opinion based game and always will be. Yet we are fully knowledgeable of all age groups, have trusted partners in each age group that provide trusted opinion and we are out and watching games each week. Therefore the negative comments are due to their belief of ‘incorrect selection’ rather than it being a closed shop.

As of this we still allow U18 players to play for their open-age clubs on a Saturday. We know that this is not ideal with our U18 manager chasing players on a Saturday evening due to injuries from Saturday games. We are looking at ways forward to improve our players, whilst maintaining good links with clubs and plans are afoot to speak with local clubs to work out an effective model going forward. To make players choose between club or Centre isn’t the way forward at this present time, and are in no position to explore this model just yet.

Alcohol Policy
All players are fully-aware of the Centres stance on alcohol through the Centre’s policy. Players are aware of the consequences of this with a number of players at various stages within the policy which can ultimately lead to release. A handful of players have been dropped for games when an offence has been made this season.

We are as disappointed as you are at the results we have had this season in the NWYA league, but we must remember that a large number of teams in the league are linked to colleges, Curzon Ashton and Morecambe, who we beat, to name 2; training 3 or days a week, and with the geographical location of the other teams in the league, it is easier for them to draw in players of a higher standard, many of who will have been released by football league academies, which we cannot really compete with or do due to our location.

We continue to learn as we go along. This is only the 2nd season in which we have competed in a league and the 1st season in the North West Youth Alliance. The group of players that are 17-18 in this setup have encountered a lot of changes and experiments as we have continued to grow, which has helped us to improve and build. We have learned a lot from what has happened from day one and always meet regularly as staff to discuss and plan our next steps in line with our 5-year plan which does include a Reserve side very shortly, and the introduction of a Girls Performance Centre.

[Dino]

Thank you for your reply, it answers a lot of my questions, sorry if i may have come across as a bit negative, it was just frustration.
Hopefully you can address some of the problems and make the performance centre the aim for young players in this area.
Keep up the good work and thanks for replying.