Bluebirds Trust AGM

[John Very Little]

That is an awful statement, smacks of either trying to protect someone or being too scared to go into any further detail. Its poorly worded and tells us nothing about how the situation was allowed to occur, who's fault it was or what measures have been put in place to ensure it never happens again.
I really really struggle to see how 17 separate ATM transactions could've been an oversight, and whether its being paid back or not I am at an absolute loss to understand why the trust board have chosen not to take any further action.

Not so straightforward Kieran. Firstly all the bank statements went to the former Treasurers address. When it was looked into there were many withdrawals and some of the withdrawals that were made could be accounted for, but there were 17 over a period of 4 months that couldn’t be accounted for.

As the money is being paid back and there were other factors the chances of action being taken on the legal side was very slim. In addition they didn't get much help of the Coop Bank (where the initial account was held) in trying to resolve the situation. The first priority of the Trust Board was to recover all the cash which will hopefully be done and there is a written undertaking in place signed by PG saying the money will be paid back and further action can be taken if it isn't paid back. The statement in the accounts is more for an official accounts response. However when the accounts are submitted the wording in the section by the accountants should alert the FCA (Financial Conduct Authority) to what's happened and they can prevent someone from being in a similar position in future.

As soon as the new Treasurer took over and this came to light everything has now been changed so that a new bank account has been set up with more visibility of where the money is going and how it's being handled so there is more control over the finances and this shouldn’t happen again.

[barrowfan]

It is common practice in organisations like this to need two signatures for cash withdrawals or larger cheques. As well as being a sensible practice it also protects the treasurer and shows everybody that everything is being done in a professional manner.

[John Very Little]

It is common practice in organisations like this to need two signatures for cash withdrawals or larger cheques. As well as being a sensible practice it also protects the treasurer and shows everybody that everything is being done in a professional manner.

As there were lots of purchases being made on a regular basis a card was used to make cash withdrawals and purchases as cheques weren't practical and I think the Treasurer, Secretary and Chairman had an individual card. I raised the point about 2 signatures being required on any cheques and this will be looked into but I think the first priority has been dealing with the issues this has caused (none of which is the present Trust Boards fault).

[Alhosk]

What kind of stuff does the Trust pay for with cash? Seems odd to me that such figures are being withdrawn/spent in this day and age.

And what controls are in place to identify a potential issue before it's too late? It seems to me that the account could have been emptied and it would have only been picked up at the end of year accounting, potentially months after the event.

[Alley_Cat]

Mods,

Can I suggest locking this topic.

It seems as though the issue has been resolved and lessons learned. Further discussion could lead to a witch hunt

[Ryan P]

That is an awful statement, smacks of either trying to protect someone or being too scared to go into any further detail. Its poorly worded and tells us nothing about how the situation was allowed to occur, who's fault it was or what measures have been put in place to ensure it never happens again.

I really really struggle to see how 17 separate ATM transactions could've been an oversight, and whether its being paid back or not I am at an absolute loss to understand why the trust board have chosen not to take any further action.

I don't want to get into a long and drawn out discussion about this at this stage, particularly as the minutes of the AGM have not yet gone out to those members who were unable to attend (which will be done in due course), but I think it's important to stress that the note to accounts was just one part of what was a larger discussion of the matter which was an open, honest, and lengthy one last night.

What kind of stuff does the Trust pay for with cash? Seems odd to me that such figures are being withdrawn/spent in this day and age.

And what controls are in place to identify a potential issue before it's too late? It seems to me that the account could have been emptied and it would have only been picked up at the end of year accounting, potentially months after the event.

These events occurred well before my time as treasurer of the Trust. Since then we have changed the way we do things with much greater segregation of duties, and we almost never pay for anything in cash now. In terms of controls in place to avoid this happening in future, I am the one who oversees money in and out of the account (although others do have access to this information) however I do not possess a bank card. This means that any expenditure is quickly picked up by me and explanation / an invoice is sought from whoever carried out the transaction. Dealing with this has taken up a great deal of my free time, however, going forward I'm now in the process of looking at everything the Trust does financially to see if there are any further improvements that can be made to our processes.

I understand the issue of dual signatory, however, we do not use cheques that frequently and the fact that me, Frazer and Rich all live in different towns makes this difficult and slow. Whether we change that is certainly something we'll look into, but there have definitely been significant improvements made in the way the Trust operates and we are keen to ensure that we continue to improve and follow best practice.

[John Very Little]

What kind of stuff does the Trust pay for with cash? Seems odd to me that such figures are being withdrawn/spent in this day and age.
And what controls are in place to identify a potential issue before it's too late? It seems to me that the account could have been emptied and it would have only been picked up at the end of year accounting, potentially months after the event.

You only have to look in the Trust Shop to see all the many items such as merchandise, sweets, crisps, chocolate, tea, coffee, pop and all the many other bits and pieces, stuff for any activities they do as well as stationary, printing etc. that would need cash. I'm sure one of the Trust Board will be able to verify the exact things if needed?

As soon as the new Treasurer took over the bank account was changed and more things introduced to provide greater visibility where it wasn't possible previously as he's mentioned above. You have to remember that the previous treasurer was trusted (he was a board member). Speaking of which the Trust have also made the club aware of what's happened.

[Alhosk]

Thanks Ryan, appreciate the response.

What kind of stuff does the Trust pay for with cash? Seems odd to me that such figures are being withdrawn/spent in this day and age.

You only have to look in the Trust Shop to see all the many items such as merchandise, sweets, crisps, chocolate, tea, coffee, pop and all the many other bits and pieces, stuff for any activities they do as well as stationary, printing etc. that would need cash. I'm sure one of the Trust Board will be able to verify the exact things if needed?

Sweets, crisps and chocolate don't need cash.

[McMark]

I think the Trust officials have acted in the best interest of all it's members in trying to safeguard and recover all losses highlighted to everyone who attended last nights AGM, whether they went far enough is another matter.
It really sounded a sad state of affairs and would of been no easy task putting personal friendships to one side in many cases to conduct things in a thorough and professional manner.

They sought legal and professional advise before they made their decision and lessons look to have been learned moving forward, I'm sure hindsight is a wonderful thing.

I hope the Trusts members continue to give their full support to the excellent work the Trust does in the community and also delivering travel to and from games and also building a nest egg for investment in our club whenever the opportunity arises.

[Bingo]

It seems very sad for all involved.

It's so easy to lose track once you stop keeping adequate records - with a job like treasurer you really need to be on the ball all the time

[John Very Little]

Thanks Ryan, appreciate the response.

You only have to look in the Trust Shop to see all the many items such as merchandise, sweets, crisps, chocolate, tea, coffee, pop and all the many other bits and pieces, stuff for any activities they do as well as stationary, printing etc. that would need cash. I'm sure one of the Trust Board will be able to verify the exact things if needed?

Sweets, crisps and chocolate don't need cash.

Clearly lots of things were bought using cash (that was withdrawn from the Trust Account with a card). I don't know the exact set up of the cards, where and how things were bought and how many items were involved but I was just suggesting some of many things that could have been bought using cash, especially if items were bought by another Trust Committee member that didn't have a card. Ryan did mention that a lot of things have been changed (the way cash was handled in particular) compared to how it was previously.

[barrowfan]

I was in an organisation and responsible for buying items for cash. There are two ways it can be done done and that is that you use your own cash, get a receipt, present it to the treasurer who reimburses you and then he has the receipts for the records.
The other method is to give person who responsible for the buying a float in advance of say £50 or £100, so he doesn't have to use his own money and this is replenished on the production of receipts.

[DIXIE]

And this is a trust who set up hoping to buy shares in our club. Sounds like an absolute shambles and especially in the way you are handling this situation.
I for one hope you as a trust, never have any control in our club.

[boyliegladbach]

And this is a trust who set up hoping to buy shares in our club. Sounds like an absolute shambles and especially in the way you are handling this situation.
I for one hope you as a trust, never have any control in our club.

How would you have handled it dixie?

[ruins]

And this is a trust who set up hoping to buy shares in our club. Sounds like an absolute shambles and especially in the way you are handling this situation.
I for one hope you as a trust, never have any control in our club.

I dont think you have thought that comment through Dixie. While the situation and specific issue is far from good there are a lot of people involved who do a great deal for the trust and is nothing but positive, as volunteers.

You wouldnt be saying that if PC pulled out and they stepped in to pay players wages or bills would you?

Silly post.