Barrow AFC.net

Will celebrate but not in the Townhouse.

Hadrian wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:51 am The FL have coped with one team short in L1 this season and could do so again. Although this would have a financial implication (one home game fewer per team again) it may be easier than selecting a team from L2 for promotion if the season cannot be finished and there is no consensus on how to determine final placings. In such a situation, it could be that membership of Tiers 1-4 could remain as now.

They coped because they had to as it was too late to do anything else. They won't play with a team short next season.

madplumpy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:01 pm Anyone thought they might promote 1 club via a playoff?
Barrow get a bye to the final as ‘champions’ normal play-off spots play their usual round robins and the winner of that meet us in the final and the winner promoted to EFL2? If this lock down is relaxed soon, then these matches could get played fairly quickly.

I don't think that will happen, but if it did you could argue that it's actually unfair on us. We won't have played a game for months, whereas our opponents will have 1 or possibly 2 play-off games under their belts meaning they'd probably be much sharper than us.

Kieran wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 8:12 pm

madplumpy wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 4:01 pm Anyone thought they might promote 1 club via a playoff?
Barrow get a bye to the final as ‘champions’ normal play-off spots play their usual round robins and the winner of that meet us in the final and the winner promoted to EFL2? If this lock down is relaxed soon, then these matches could get played fairly quickly.

I don't think that will happen, but if it did you could argue that it's actually unfair on us. We won't have played a game for months, whereas our opponents will have 1 or possibly 2 play-off games under their belts meaning they'd probably be much sharper than us.

Dont think it could happen because NL rules dont currently allow for it. The NL has trouble working with the rules it has got without inventing new ones. It can recognise us as Champions, or recognise no one as champions. It cant turn us into a play-off contender as to do so would be to endow us with a status that does not exist. I'd give it 15 minutes before it got laughed out of court.

He makes a good point Nige about the two up two down system between the EFL and the NL. Were the NL to void and the EFL (as is their professed intention per Rick Parry) to complete the season, it might put the ongoing principle of promotion and relegation between the two Leagues in jeopardy and the NL would not dare countenance that.

I dont know why but I'm beginning to feel that the "null and void" option may be diminishing in comparison with a solution that ensures continuity of mobility between Leagues. The SPFL (despite the farcical situation they managed to find themselves in today thanks to another weird and wonderful rule that they appear to have forgotten about) seem to be edging towards a PPG outcome. Indeed they have been criticised for being quite heavy handed in influencing SPFL to go for it.

Unfortunately for our friends at Non-League Step 3 and below they only have the omnipotent, omnipresent FA Council to act on their behalf. Far too small to be significant and easy to shut up with a thunderbolt decree. This was what the NL seemed to want for us on 25th March when they went running to the FA asking them to "close" the season presumably thinking an FA decree would save them from having to make a decision. What they got was basically "you dont need us, you're a National Association, sort it out yourselves". From this point onwards the difficulties in engineering a unilateral voiding by the NL have become increasingly apparent.

So what’s happening then?

bigmac95 wrote: ↑Sat Apr 11, 2020 12:21 am So what’s happening then?

ask this time next week - we might know then - or at least might be a week closer to knowing.

ssgtfoster wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:16 am So here goes - this is genuinely what I think the outcome will be having looked at this for weeks........

(1) EFL 2 must have an additional team for next season - FACT. Screws the whole fixture list up otherwise with blank Saturdays for teams/Carribo Cup/FA Cup etc. The EFL structure is the most critical, more so than the National League. SO THERE WILL BE ONE TEAM INVITED INTO THE EFL;

(2) The National League will he asked to nominate a team for promotion, and whatever the final outcome of this seasons results (null & void/PPG) they will make the only fair and reasonable decision they can, and nominate BARROW. No NL team would ultimately disagree - most have already indicated as much;

(3) This then leaves the National League one team short for next season. But they cannot promote from NL North or South as feeder leagues are annulled. They will accept this though, as better to have the blank fixture in NL than EFL (we have far more forced postponements in NL due to FA Cup Qualifying/crap pitches/FA Trophy). The NL will then only relegate 3 teams 2020/21 but promote 4 as usual from North & South to level things out. Also the NL has this Cup Comp in Scotland that screws the fixtures too certain weekends - this will be considered and will level everything out.

I cannot see any other outcome than the above. Just need EFL to agree this weekend - which they would - if they haven’t already. This then concludes the entire non league set up for 2019/20 - and whatever the outcome of the EFL season (completed or not) it has no relevance as the decision is already in place.

I’m happy that this is the only viable, sound conclusion that will be ratified next week.

You're assuming that no clubs in the National League set up will go bust which I think is a pretty optimistic attitude to take and i.m told that the expectation is that if it doesn't reach double figures they will have done well, obviously, if the cancellation of the outstanding games is confirmed and clubs arent required to extend contracts it may turn out to be not as bad as that but you may also see teams asking to be demoted in order to reduce the level of wages theyd need to pay ie stay in the NL and go bust or ask to be demoted to the NPL with a vastly reduced wage bill and reorganise but survive I know of one NL club who will be taking that option if they don't end up being relegated and conversely I know of an NPL club who appear to have been given an indication that although steps 3 to 7 have been voided they may still end up in the NL set up next season.

My guess is that once things move on a bit and things are a bit clearer the NL will have a look at which and how many clubs they are likely to have and then make some decisions about whether they need some more clubs but i.m pretty sure there is a memorandum of agreement in place between the NL and NPL that the NPL won't punish any clubs who accept an invitation to move up and in return, the NL would only do it in a way that wouldn't destroy the integrity of the leagues below.

And my guess is that the NL may also take this as an opportunity to rebalance the North and South aspects of the second tier as well but what is for sure is that when it all restarts the make up of the NL could well look very different to what it is today.

Hadrian wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:51 am The FL have coped with one team short in L1 this season and could do so again. Although this would have a financial implication (one home game fewer per team again) it may be easier than selecting a team from L2 for promotion if the season cannot be finished and there is no consensus on how to determine final placings. In such a situation, it could be that membership of Tiers 1-4 could remain as now.

Except that they've already started the process and i.m pretty sure if you wade thru all the FL waffle about the removal of Bury you.ll find their plans are made clear in that they do not intend to run with a club short in either league one or league two next season whenever that is and I can't see that the virus situation will have changed that in any way.

jaycarter wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 3:00 pm

ssgtfoster wrote: ↑Fri Apr 10, 2020 10:16 am So here goes - this is genuinely what I think the outcome will be having looked at this for weeks........

(1) EFL 2 must have an additional team for next season - FACT. Screws the whole fixture list up otherwise with blank Saturdays for teams/Carribo Cup/FA Cup etc. The EFL structure is the most critical, more so than the National League. SO THERE WILL BE ONE TEAM INVITED INTO THE EFL;

(2) The National League will he asked to nominate a team for promotion, and whatever the final outcome of this seasons results (null & void/PPG) they will make the only fair and reasonable decision they can, and nominate BARROW. No NL team would ultimately disagree - most have already indicated as much;

(3) This then leaves the National League one team short for next season. But they cannot promote from NL North or South as feeder leagues are annulled. They will accept this though, as better to have the blank fixture in NL than EFL (we have far more forced postponements in NL due to FA Cup Qualifying/crap pitches/FA Trophy). The NL will then only relegate 3 teams 2020/21 but promote 4 as usual from North & South to level things out. Also the NL has this Cup Comp in Scotland that screws the fixtures too certain weekends - this will be considered and will level everything out.

I cannot see any other outcome than the above. Just need EFL to agree this weekend - which they would - if they haven’t already. This then concludes the entire non league set up for 2019/20 - and whatever the outcome of the EFL season (completed or not) it has no relevance as the decision is already in place.

I’m happy that this is the only viable, sound conclusion that will be ratified next week.

It is Div 1 that is a team short not Div 2 it would be much easier to sort if it was Div 2 as stated above, so to move Barrow or any other team into Div 2 they must promote one team from div 2 to create the vacancy not so easy I think but we will see.

That is already in place only 3 teams are being relegated from div one to division 2 but 4 teams are being promoted from div two to division one which would return division one to its required quota of teams.

I think we know what the plans were. The question remains how to implement them if the present competition remains incomplete.

One of the things that is significant about the way the SPFL are trying to do it is the "unbundling" of several decisions probably on the basis of it all being too hard. I think this might be the way the NL goes next week - not trying to deal with the issue with a simple yes or no.

The first question is likely to be "Do we want to end the season now?" Only then might they ask "How do we want to end the season?" Too many clubs are still addressing the first question with a caveat "as long as". So Chairman Dave at Fylde will say "Yes - void the season" and effectively is answering two questions not one.

The owners/chairmen have got to be made to address the first question on its merits i.e. its a national emergency that will cripple our League system if we dont do something about it right now. Once you've got the principle established that the season is over it actually becomes a bit easier to address the issue of "how" because you can then focus on the options.

So I expect we may get an answer to the first question this week - the season has ended. The politicking can then play itself out which might be spectacular but you've got to allow all these biases out into the open before you can reach a conclusion. I'm not convinced that there is much unity in the NL. It doesn't seem to have a common spokesperson with much of a voice unlike the EFL. So dont expect the NL to force the hand of its members - unless it gets a call from the FA or the EFL with a list of "dos" or "donts".

Either the NL will come down on one proposal or it will allow a free for all. The former will be turgid, the latter would be disastrous. So I'll stick my neck and say that a simple solution looks unlikely unless the NL can force it. Its looking to me more likely that what we might get is going to have to be a classic compromise that amalgamates parts of the three main options in some way - Declare, Curtail, Void. The declaration part is necessary to continue to allow movement between the EFL and NL (which when push comes to shove is really the reason for the NL). The voiding part will probably be needed to obtain a working consensus by the members and I think will have to address the issue of relegation.

This is the NL resolution on which clubs are voting. The crunch question is the one that comes after this: How do we finish?
I see Chesterfield have voted in favour:

Under Chapter 2 of Part 13 of the Companies Act 2006, the Company propose that having regard to the current restrictions which the Government has imposed as a result of the ongoing COVID-19 pandemic and the disruption this has caused and may continue to cause to the operation of the National League, the following resolution be passed as an ordinary resolution.

ORDINARY RESOLUTION

That the Playing Season (as defined in the FA Standardised Membership Rules 2019/20 of the Season of the Company, i.e. The National League) shall immediately end for all fixtures scheduled up to and including 25 April 2020

Thanks for that Nigel - I hadn't seen the exact wording. So it does look like the NL are going for a multi stage approach. Therefore probably the best we'll get is agreement that the season cannot be re-started.

Might feel like the answer to the question posed will be an unequivocal "Yes", but I suspect you may even find some clubs find it difficult to do this without their view of "How" having also been agreed. As there are options for us whatever the answer to the "How" question my guess would be that we will probably support the motion. Others who's future may be heavily influenced by one specific type of outcome outcome might find it more difficult.