Decisions being made

[NORTHERNSOUL]

Thanks for that Nigel - I hadn't seen the exact wording. So it does look like the NL are going for a multi stage approach. Therefore probably the best we'll get is agreement that the season cannot be re-started.

Might feel like the answer to the question posed will be an unequivocal "Yes", but I suspect you may even find some clubs find it difficult to do this without their view of "How" having also been agreed. As there are options for us whatever the answer to the "How" question my guess would be that we will probably support the motion. Others who's future may be heavily influenced by one specific type of outcome outcome might find it more difficult.

Although it won't affect a lot of the clubs I don't really see how Barrow could make a yes or no decision without knowing the options that will be available in the second part. I don't see why they couldn't have said if Yes wins part one these will be your options in part two and if No wins part one these will be your options in part two but maybe just maybe given what the guy from Harrogate said yesterday this might be exactly what they have done or how else would he know that null and void won't be an option ?

[Suffolk Blue]

So - can someone confirm:

(a) How many votes there will be? and
(b) What kind of majority will be required for the resolution to be agreed?

[Suffolk Blue]

Although it won't affect a lot of the clubs I don't really see how Barrow could make a yes or no decision without knowing the options that will be available in the second part. I don't see why they couldn't have said if Yes wins part one these will be your options in part two and if No wins part one these will be your options in part two but maybe just maybe given what the guy from Harrogate said yesterday this might be exactly what they have done or how else would he know that null and void won't be an option ?

Well clearly from the resolution wording that's what the NL appear to be doing. I can only think that they are attempting to prevent teams from subsequently backtracking if what they see is a final solution appears to be going against them. The issue whether you push a second resolution in behind immediately then depends on how confident you feel.

The SPFL have gone not only with a lets end it motion but added in a lets finish on a PPG basis AND retain promotion and relegation. They are currently only one vote away from passing that resolution on a vote of all clubs. But they have leverage in that they wont release funds to clubs unless the season has ended. So they've got their clubs by the balls. They can finish now, take the pain and get their money or procrastinate further and have no finance. Nasty? Perhaps but it certainly focuses minds.

I dont know whether the funds now being released by the Premiership to the NL will go straight to the clubs or to the NL for distribution. If the latter then it could try the same tactic and attach distribution to a resolution which they then try and ram it through. With regards to us, I've always suspected from the day we went into lockdown that IE accepted that no additional football would happen and that his entire positioning since then has been to end the season on any basis that would preserve our promotion claim. Hence why I think we'll agree to the resolution.

[barrowaberdeen]

And it's chaos North of the Border

But the initial vote will agree to end the season. It's what happens next. If they've any sense they will look at the mistakes made in Scotland. Many of the clubs and squads involved (not all before the usual childish nonsense) are similarly set up financially.to the National League

[Suffolk Blue]

Yes the SPFL seemed to have forgotten that they have a obscure 28 day rule that applies when submitting proposals to its members. One enterprising unnamed Championship club that clearly will be negatively affected by the solution now finds itself holding the balance of power and its sitting on its vote presumably making noises to the SPFL along the lines of "whats it worth?". It was a big ask by the SPFL to get everything approved in one vote and it might've done better seeking a solution in manageable chunks. However, I do think it'll eventually force an outcome and it doesn't look like its going to involve voiding.

Just to re-emphasise that UEFA are not contemplating voiding, the Premiership is committed to a conclusion as is the EFL and the SPFL. Does not mean that all of those Leagues will actually complete just that forgetting the season existed doesn't appear to be on their agenda.

[HenneysKnee]

Fairly confident the initial vote will go in favour of yes, it’s the next vote that is interesting for us
And I don’t believe Harrogate have seen that null and void “isn’t an option” or surely we’d have seen the same and Evatt still wouldn’t be tirelessly campaigning in the media to not let that happen

[blue nige]

If it was going to be null and void the FA would have put all the non league teams together and finished all of them together as they didn't it's pretty obvious they realise this would have indirectly effected the EFL decision and because of this they obviously want a satisfactory conclusion.

[Nigel Bamford]

Yes the SPFL seemed to have forgotten that they have a obscure 28 day rule that applies when submitting proposals to its members. One enterprising unnamed Championship club that clearly will be negatively affected by the solution now finds itself holding the balance of power and its sitting on its vote presumably making noises to the SPFL along the lines of "whats it worth?". It was a big ask by the SPFL to get everything approved in one vote and it might've done better seeking a solution in manageable chunks. However, I do think it'll eventually force an outcome and it doesn't look like its going to involve voiding.

I’ll name that club : Dundee. They should have returned their voting slip by 5:00 p.m. Friday - and a picture of the slip rejecting the proposal has emerged - but was never lodged. Apparently. Now Rangers are calling for the removal of the SPFL chief executive over the debacle. It’s going to get messy.

[Suffolk Blue]

Yes the SPFL seemed to have forgotten that they have a obscure 28 day rule that applies when submitting proposals to its members. One enterprising unnamed Championship club that clearly will be negatively affected by the solution now finds itself holding the balance of power and its sitting on its vote presumably making noises to the SPFL along the lines of "whats it worth?". It was a big ask by the SPFL to get everything approved in one vote and it might've done better seeking a solution in manageable chunks. However, I do think it'll eventually force an outcome and it doesn't look like its going to involve voiding.

I’ll name that club : Dundee. They should have returned their voting slip by 5:00 p.m. Friday - and a picture of the slip rejecting the proposal has emerged - but was never lodged. Apparently. Now Rangers are calling for the removal of the SPFL chief executive over the debacle. It’s going to get messy.

Well what a surprise. "Club with Promotion aspirations defies SPFL shocker!" If I'm right Dundee would just miss out on promotion even with the restructure Premiership proposal. Sounds like Trumpian tactics are being used to secure votes though why Rangers are choosing to play the "honest broker" I'm not sure. Clearly they wont catch Celtic. The moral of this story is when attempting to strong arm a decision out of your members always remember your own rules.

There is clearly a particular dynamic developing in these votes. The Null and void option may be the easiest because it does not affect the majority. The type of chaos going on in Scotland occurs when you take that option away and force the members to make a more difficult decision. Strange sh*t then ensues.

If the NL were to offer its members a free vote including voiding then I think they'd probably (depending on the required majority get it through) despite it being unfair and a travesty. We'll wait and see what happens later this week. If the null and void option (as per the Harrogate DC) is not on offer it can only be that the NL has been directly or indirectly influenced. If so expect some more strange sh*t to happen before this is over.

[russell_anderson]

I’ll name that club : Dundee. They should have returned their voting slip by 5:00 p.m. Friday - and a picture of the slip rejecting the proposal has emerged - but was never lodged. Apparently. Now Rangers are calling for the removal of the SPFL chief executive over the debacle. It’s going to get messy.

Well what a surprise. "Club with Promotion aspirations defies SPFL shocker!" If I'm right Dundee would just miss out on promotion even with the restructure Premiership proposal. Sounds like Trumpian tactics are being used to secure votes though why Rangers are choosing to play the "honest broker" I'm not sure. Clearly they wont catch Celtic. The moral of this story is when attempting to strong arm a decision out of your members always remember your own rules.

There is clearly a particular dynamic developing in these votes. The Null and void option may be the easiest because it does not affect the majority. The type of chaos going on in Scotland occurs when you take that option away and force the members to make a more difficult decision. Strange sh*t then ensues.

If the NL were to offer its members a free vote including voiding then I think they'd probably (depending on the required majority get it through) despite it being unfair and a travesty. We'll wait and see what happens later this week. If the null and void option (as per the Harrogate DC) is not on offer it can only be that the NL has been directly or indirectly influenced. If so expect some more strange sh*t to happen before this is over.

The null and void option is the only option that could possibly not produced a promotion of NL clubs into the Football League. That is certainly not what the NL would want to happen and nor, I suspect, the Football League so to exclude that possibility in the first vote would seem eminently sensible to me.

[Suffolk Blue]

Yes it would to me too.

I'd like to know though what exactly happened on 25th March when it was widely reported in the National press that the NL had voted to "null and void" the season only for this not to be ratified by the FA. Clearly if that did happen then there'd be no point putting it to another vote.

The story I read in the Daily Star suggested that despite the request to void, that the NL then intended to move on to consider promotion and relegation which would seem bizarre as it would on the face of it contradict a voiding outcome. I was left wondering whether the FA had just told the NL to go away and come up with a coherent resolution or whether it was a combination of guesswork and misreporting by the Daily Star.

[HenneysKnee]

So much for the vote this week......
Ollie Bayliss (presents the non league football show) has tweeted saying.......
National League clubs have until 7th May to vote on ending the regular season.

However, the League has urged clubs to return their email votes as soon as possible.

Ideally they hope to begin a poll on the ‘outcomes’ of the season no later than 28th April, preferably sooner.

[Suffolk Blue]

Its only at times like this that you really understand how facile and useless these associations really are and how incapable they are of taking any form of lead. You've thought that at our level where there are always more threats than opportunities there might be conditions under which a decision in less than 21 or 28 days might be possible.

So it feels like everyone can keep their prejudices for another three weeks at least and probably longer if the so-called poll of "outcomes" is free and unfettered and allows phrase such as "only if", "on the understanding that" or "subject to".

After all this time it feels like the NL is simply seeking more time, presumably (a) to see whether there is anything to read from the "tea leaves" of having a poll and (b) hoping to God that they get some further divine intervention from the EFL or FA.

[Stephen Leonard]

I suspect the 28 days may be because this is a special resolution being put forward under the Companies Act (I haven’t read all the thread but I am sure some one posted details of the proposal and it referred to the 2006 Companies Act.

Therefore it may be they have to wait 28 days (it might be possible to shortern this but usually it would require the agreement of all voting parties in advance which might be difficult and actually delay the process more)

Based on the news of Brian Arrowsmith passing away I really do think that the situation of the league future etc is really secondary in this current situation which has already affected many thousands of people. Whether we are in National League or Football league most of us will hopefully have the chance to watch out club next season - some sadly won’t and maybe we should just wait until the league and authorities sort this out instead of constantly overanalysing and speculating on stuff we have no control over

[Jim]

Well said, Stephen (at the third time of asking).