Training Facilities ? Physio

[Suffolk Blue]

In an attempt to answer my own question I've found this :

https://openaccesspub.org/jnrt/article/483

Just one study but interesting nevertheless. To summaise its findings

1. Playing on grass as opposed to an artificial surface does not seem to have any real effect on the development of skills or competences.
2. In relation to injuries a distinction should be made between Non-Elite and Elite football.
3. In relation to non-elite football playing on an artificial surface carries with it an age related risk as opposed to playing on grass. Younger players it seems are statistically less likely to be injured but the position is reversed for older players.
4. However for elite footballers there would appear to be no doubt that if you mix surfaces between training and playing then you will acquire a noticeable increase in the risk of injury to your squad irrespective of age or experience.

This ties in with one of Mark Coopers favourite words "Conditioning" which he tends to distinguish from "Training". In doing so he is making a distinction between as you might say the process of getting fit (including what some might call match fit) and the process of retaining health and fitness. This is has come to be referred to by some these days as "wellness" - i.e. the ability of the body to naturally resist illness and injury.

So the study would appear to back his opinion which is that when you have to train on artificial surfaces but play on grass week in week out the likelihood of this increasing the level at which players break down during a game is higher than when you train and play on a single surface. If you play on grass you need to train on grass.

So if I can find all of this out within an hour of referring to the internet it does indeed beg the question as to why this was not factored into the selection of training facilities. Without doubt a boll*ck has been badly dropped.

[Jonty]

Sounds like Barrow are not alone over training facilities. .......

Director of football Holdsworth said any major revamp of United’s own facilities would require either a major financial injection or a joint approach with the city council.

He said: “I would love someone to come and say ‘We’ll sponsor a training ground’, which would take probably two years to build, with a 4G pitch and a facility where we could do all the things we do.

“We haven’t had anybody do that so far. I would love to be able to build that, and to make it a community centre.

“I would love to say to the community, ‘Come and train here under floodlights’. I would love the manager to have the support to be able to train in those circumstances.

“We don’t have it quite yet.

“We heard Chris every week talking about it, and that’s fine – as a manager you try and do your best but it is tough, was tough.

“There’s a lot of things that’s happened from a legacy of…not complacency, but it’s down to finance, we all know that, things cost money.”

Carlisle have been grateful for the use of facilities at Richard Rose Central Academy in the city, as well as Penrith and Kendal rugby clubs.

It appears the Blues will be reliant on such help for the foreseeable.

Holdsworth added: “You have to do your best. We’re not the only club to do that.

“I was at Mansfield Town prior to John Radford and we didn’t have those training facilities – we didn’t [even] have a second pair of nets when we had no money.

“At that time, the chairman was a great guy called Andy Perry, with Steve Middleton and Andy Saunders. They were doing everything they could to support me but there wasn’t anything in that area as well.

“I had to go wayward into Nottingham or Sheffield to train sometimes.

“When a guy comes along who’s a benefactor, willing to give you a training ground facility, that’s brilliant. Mansfield have had that [since then].

“It’s something I would love to be able to give our players and club, to deliver a facility that’s beneficial to our club and the community.

“I would love our council, and whoever that may be, to come along and say, ‘We’ll work with you to do that’.

“I would love people to say Carlisle’s got to move into the future with a facility.

“There are good people in Carlisle. I don’t have time to make those calls and sit in those meetings but in the future I’d love to be able to sit down with council planning or whoever they may be, and welcome them, and say, ‘Let’s work together, find a community centre that we can have’, that will break down these barriers, perhaps, [because] there are barriers there.

“I’m not going backwards, I want the club to go forward. If we can work with our council and maybe get grants, I would love to be able to do that.”

100% similar issues we face. After the saga we have had in securing a suitable training facility, is now the time to consider the longer term strategy for the training and that should surely include having a good facility here in Barrow. At least to support the training pre- home match days. This facility would also support Academy aspirations that we have and would be a huge community asset, and not least bringing the team closer to home. Maybe a joint venture with a local club, gym, college?

There comes a time when we have to balance the aspirations of the club, against the costs involved of continually hiring a facility out of town, together with logistics and attraction to players. Yes fully aware of costs, but what are the longer term aims? It seems each manager we've had has not liked the previous manager’s arrangements and they are deciding. When does the club start thinking of the longer term?

[Main Stand SeasonTct]

There comes a time when we have to balance the aspirations of the club, against the costs involved of continually hiring a facility out of town, together with logistics and attraction to players. Yes fully aware of costs, but what are the longer term aims? It seems each manager we've had has not liked the previous manager’s arrangements and they are deciding. When does the club start thinking of the longer term?

Paul Hornbys Programme notes for tonights Colchester match allude to the club thinking "medium" term about training facilities.. He says Mark Hetherington has agreed to head up a project looking at a more sustainable solution that will also incorporate the academy plans. Work on this project is starting immediately. The projects aims are to create the facilities and structure we need.

[gibson.l4]

Startied training at mottram hall on Thursday on proper grass.

[Mancbluebird]

Sounds like Barrow are not alone over training facilities. .......

Director of football Holdsworth said any major revamp of United’s own facilities would require either a major financial injection or a joint approach with the city council.

He said: “I would love someone to come and say ‘We’ll sponsor a training ground’, which would take probably two years to build, with a 4G pitch and a facility where we could do all the things we do.

“We haven’t had anybody do that so far. I would love to be able to build that, and to make it a community centre.

“I would love to say to the community, ‘Come and train here under floodlights’. I would love the manager to have the support to be able to train in those circumstances.

“We don’t have it quite yet.

“We heard Chris every week talking about it, and that’s fine – as a manager you try and do your best but it is tough, was tough.

“There’s a lot of things that’s happened from a legacy of…not complacency, but it’s down to finance, we all know that, things cost money.”

Carlisle have been grateful for the use of facilities at Richard Rose Central Academy in the city, as well as Penrith and Kendal rugby clubs.

It appears the Blues will be reliant on such help for the foreseeable.

Holdsworth added: “You have to do your best. We’re not the only club to do that.

“I was at Mansfield Town prior to John Radford and we didn’t have those training facilities – we didn’t [even] have a second pair of nets when we had no money.

“At that time, the chairman was a great guy called Andy Perry, with Steve Middleton and Andy Saunders. They were doing everything they could to support me but there wasn’t anything in that area as well.

“I had to go wayward into Nottingham or Sheffield to train sometimes.

“When a guy comes along who’s a benefactor, willing to give you a training ground facility, that’s brilliant. Mansfield have had that [since then].

“It’s something I would love to be able to give our players and club, to deliver a facility that’s beneficial to our club and the community.

“I would love our council, and whoever that may be, to come along and say, ‘We’ll work with you to do that’.

“I would love people to say Carlisle’s got to move into the future with a facility.

“There are good people in Carlisle. I don’t have time to make those calls and sit in those meetings but in the future I’d love to be able to sit down with council planning or whoever they may be, and welcome them, and say, ‘Let’s work together, find a community centre that we can have’, that will break down these barriers, perhaps, [because] there are barriers there.

“I’m not going backwards, I want the club to go forward. If we can work with our council and maybe get grants, I would love to be able to do that.”

100% similar issues we face. After the saga we have had in securing a suitable training facility, is now the time to consider the longer term strategy for the training and that should surely include having a good facility here in Barrow. At least to support the training pre- home match days. This facility would also support Academy aspirations that we have and would be a huge community asset, and not least bringing the team closer to home. Maybe a joint venture with a local club, gym, college?

There comes a time when we have to balance the aspirations of the club, against the costs involved of continually hiring a facility out of town, together with logistics and attraction to players. Yes fully aware of costs, but what are the longer term aims? It seems each manager we've had has not liked the previous manager’s arrangements and they are deciding. When does the club start thinking of the longer term?

What happens then if and I hope it never happens we drop out off the league. Thats a massive risk in my eyes.

[Hadrian]

As I understand it, there isn't a universal agreement on what a 4G pitch is.

Wembley - for example - is said by some to be a 4G pitch, a hybrid of grass strengthened with an artificial base, whereas others use 4G to refer to a later generation artificial pitch. I have even seen references to 5G being used for grass-free pitches.

Perhaps the Carlisle person has aspirations towards the former? If so, it is hard to see why the local council might want to contribute toward such a facility for a private company unless a significant amount of community use would be possible alongside club use for first team, youth and academy.

[Kieran]

As I understand it, there isn't a universal agreement on what a 4G pitch is.

Wembley - for example - is said by some to be a 4G pitch, a hybrid of grass strengthened with an artificial base

Pretty sure that's nonsense, who refers to Wembley as 4G? A hybrid pitch is something widely used in top level stadiums and is completely different to the wholly artificial surfaces that are recognised as 3G, 4G etc.

[Hadrian]

There is agreement on 3G pitches, not on 4G (or 5!)

See above.

[PRR]

Harrogate were training on a 5G pitch, hence the Covid outbreak. Pretty sure it's been burned down now.

[Jonty]

100% similar issues we face. After the saga we have had in securing a suitable training facility, is now the time to consider the longer term strategy for the training and that should surely include having a good facility here in Barrow. At least to support the training pre- home match days. This facility would also support Academy aspirations that we have and would be a huge community asset, and not least bringing the team closer to home. Maybe a joint venture with a local club, gym, college?

There comes a time when we have to balance the aspirations of the club, against the costs involved of continually hiring a facility out of town, together with logistics and attraction to players. Yes fully aware of costs, but what are the longer term aims? It seems each manager we've had has not liked the previous manager’s arrangements and they are deciding. When does the club start thinking of the longer term?

What happens then if and I hope it never happens we drop out off the league. Thats a massive risk in my eyes.

We have to plan for success and the short/mid/longer term strategy for this training scenario. We cant operate on what if’s.

[mickmike wilson]

Startied training at mottram hall on Thursday on proper grass.

Can we go back to training on rubble if training on grass produces preformences like that

[DistantNeutral]

I understand Accrington Stanley only got their training pitches (long term rental from the council) last season after nearly 10 years back in the football league.

[blue nige]

Obviously the training pitch needs sorting but while this is taking place, how are we still getting hamstring injuries? George Williams the latest, it's beyond belief if we know the surfaces are suspect (Cooper's words not mine) then the question is are we conditioning our players in the correct manner ,? we shouldn't still be getting in this situation!
while we are here, it would be good if the club could give actual time scales for players returning, one example of this was that (stated by the club) that Mike Jones (achilles) was starting contact training then we hear nothing, Platt has s stress fracture if this is long term ,what are we doing to rectify this because it's obvious we can't continue missing a key central defender!

[blue nige]

As I understand it, there isn't a universal agreement on what a 4G pitch is.

Wembley - for example - is said by some to be a 4G pitch, a hybrid of grass strengthened with an artificial base

Pretty sure that's nonsense, who refers to Wembley as 4G? A hybrid pitch is something widely used in top level stadiums and is completely different to the wholly artificial surfaces that are recognised as 3G, 4G etc.

Hope this clears things up !

https://www.wembleystadium.com/news/202 ... enovations

[Hadrian]

Thanks. A clear explanation of the hybrid pitch.

Up the coast at Maryport, SIS pitches have a good explanation of different types of pitch on their website, reminding us that the football authorities do not differentiate between the differing designs beyond 3G which is the only type of artificial surface they recognise.

Hybrid pitches count as grass but marketing departments of some firms add their own 'brands' which can blur the distinction between them and artificial pitches, all of which nowadays are far better than the original sand-filled 2G pitches that many of us suffered from.