Possible to play off position

[olbarrafancumbak]

Got to agree with SB and MSST We are surviving on the good will and philanthropy of a few individuals. Our top priority would seem to be further investment with stability and consolidation joint second.

But the nature of the beast does concoct a conundrum: Yes we want to win every game; no we don't want to go up!

Given our current ownership model for which we are indebted to winning enough games to avoid relegation is success imo. Until we get new investment I’m happy with that and listening to the q&a last week the current owners appear comfortable financing the club to do just that

Forgive me if I am wrong here but wasn't the initial target at the start of the season coming from Mr Hornby "promotion"? I am absolutely positive that's what they said? And if that's correct, why the sudden change in outlook? Just asking btw?

[Main Stand SeasonTct]

Given our current ownership model for which we are indebted to winning enough games to avoid relegation is success imo. Until we get new investment I’m happy with that and listening to the q&a last week the current owners appear comfortable financing the club to do just that

Forgive me if I am wrong here but wasn't the initial target at the start of the season coming from Mr Hornby "promotion"? I am absolutely positive that's what they said? And if that's correct, why the sudden change in outlook? Just asking btw?

Hornby made some interesting points the other night. In our first couple of seasons we had a top seven playing budget. I think he mentioned a figure of around £1.6 million. This season we are 15th in player budget and 11 teams in league 2 this season have a player budget exceeding £3 million. I forget the exact figure but he said ours was in excess of £2 million We are falling behind what other clubs are paying and like has been said without new investment that gap isn’t going to close imo meaning our current model is a survival mode and Tony Shearer although not specifically saying that’s the case the way he worded it it was obvious that’s now the case

[Suffolk Blue]

I don’t think anybody is suggesting that the squad ends up “on the beach” or that it would not be great just to watch the last few games free from worry or that the aspiration of any club should not be to progress. Let’s have a good end to the season.

Reading between the lines it seems to me that for us to reach a level that would consistently see us in play-off territory, additional investment may be needed. Maybe the current owners are even thinking about “sensible” investment.

The rise and fall of Carlisle United should be a clear warning to any EFL club of the potential pitfalls of poor planning and investment however. We would never want to repeat that.

Who would have predicted at the start of this season that Carlisle would end up in the position of willing Barrow to go Morecambe and beat them in the middle of March? It’s a funny old game.

[pjdaly]

But the nature of the beast does concoct a conundrum: Yes we want to win every game; no we don't want to go up!

Nice one, WG, that sums it up really! It's 'Denis Law Syndrome'. We always, always, always must want to go out and win every single time because it's human nature but there are times when, deep down, it would be preferable not to - - - just as the recently passed Denis had no option but to do his professional duty and try to score, which he duly did when he and Man City relegated his beloved Man Utd back in 1974.

From my own understanding (which let me say is limited) it does not seem remotely wise at this moment for us to be wanting promotion. Correct me if I'm wrong but it seems to me that we have nowhere near the necessary infrastructure to think of competing at the next level up. A lot has changed since the late 1960's but one thing that seems pretty much a constant is that getting promoted without the infrastructure will still lead to crash-and-burn as it did for us back then - - - and oh did we crash and burn. But even more recently, the likes of Forest Green (and perhaps Carlisle in the next few weeks?) know what it's like to fall and then keep on falling. Crawley might be also about to do it but we'll have to wait and see where they stand twelve months from now.

The dreamers might label me a pessimist for not really wanting promotion right now. And I dare say, to paraphrase Lennon, there are dreamers, and more than just the one, who want the immediate gratification of promotion without considering the foundations. I guess it's the "I want it and I want it now" mentality. But I definitely don't think of myself as a pessimist, just as somebody who wants the success but only when the deck of cards is right. "Failure" (in the form of mediocrity in the middle of the table) might seem like a dirty word but sometimes "failure" is relative and can allow time for learning and growth, and ultimately a greater ability to cope a bit further down the line. I mean, why expect the creases in your shirt-collar to disappear if you haven't allowed time for your iron to warm up? So let's have a period of "relative failure" (or consolidation as it's often called) and then maybe, at some point, the time might hopefully be right. If we went up too soon we might crash and burn again, all the way into non-league, and then no potential investors will look at us. But hang around a while at this level and maybe (yes, it could be a big 'maybe') investors will come in who tick all the right boxes and are ready and able to project us to the next level. It's about staying in the shop-window and being patient.

Alternatively, the dreamers might have us going up right now when the "relative failure" of mid-table might in fact be best for us for the time being. But I guess persuading those who want us promoted this season (if not before) would be like trying to hold a meaningful conversation with my own ear-wax.

[behind the goals]

Only getting 3,000 home fans at league 2 games isn't really enough especially with a 2.5 million wage bill, money from being in the EFL helps but how long do you think the owners can keep putting money in, but fans still want big signings and ground improvements and promotion, its been said many times keeping our league status is more important.

[Pedro]

This forum sometimes has the demeanour and consistency of somebody on crystal meth.

Win a couple of games and the fantasists line up with the promotion charge. Lose at Morecambe and the killing crew will take over demanding Whing’s head.

It’s only a few days since a pretty well balanced Q&A session in which the dangers of over-reaching ourselves financially were articulated along with the point that we are still very much in the process of stabilising ourselves in the EFL.

It’s been a very messy season and in many ways a disappointing one. Are we in great shape for a promotion push even if it were possible? Get real guys.

Look football is about hope and it can be dashed.
Let's dream look what we achieved when Vaughan dumping us and the League thought we would go down but we stayed up.
We have nothing to loose

[saltcellar]

Forgive me if I am wrong here but wasn't the initial target at the start of the season coming from Mr Hornby "promotion"? I am absolutely positive that's what they said? And if that's correct, why the sudden change in outlook? Just asking btw?

Hornby made some interesting points the other night. In our first couple of seasons we had a top seven playing budget. I think he mentioned a figure of around £1.6 million. This season we are 15th in player budget and 11 teams in league 2 this season have a player budget exceeding £3 million. I forget the exact figure but he said ours was in excess of £2 million We are falling behind what other clubs are paying and like has been said without new investment that gap isn’t going to close imo meaning our current model is a survival mode and Tony Shearer although not specifically saying that’s the case the way he worded it it was obvious that’s now the case

Paul Hornby said the budget is £2.6 million this year.

[Suffolk Blue]

Would never want to lose hope Pedro. Especially being a BAFC supporter.

The key issue here is that the Board have really indicated that the plan such as it is, does not include busting a gut to get play-off place this season and probably never has been.

Success and failure cannot be entirely defined in terms of league position especially if that is neither at the top or bottom.

We may end up in 13th or 14th or we may end up in 18th or 19th. Anything outside that range would be pretty unusual. Despite some good things happening I firmly believe that the BoD will conclude that the season has been more failure than success and that a further reset in our direction will be forthcoming.

That’s what the rest of the season is really about for me. Watching this process begin to take place rather than chasing dreams.

[mall]

To be fair, we would still take more to Truro on a Tuesday than you would take to Harrogate on a Saturday.

But Carlisle is a BIG city, whereas Barrow is a tiny hamlet at the end of the A590....

Quite correct Tommy2thumbs.
We are all in the gutter, but some of us are looking at the stars, while others are looking at Eastleigh and Braintree!

[Barrow afc 2018]

Can’t really argue with a lot of what’s been discussed as we all have different views and perspectives.

If lower to mid table is deemed success then so be it theres absolutely nothing wrong with that but it won’t send ticket sales through the roof and no doubt the style would be pretty poor imo. But if indeed that was the case then PW gave us two really special seasons.

One thing I know about football is it’s a dynamic therefore nigh on impossible to plan anything, you may get promoted or relegated, you can win things with a rag arse team rare I know but possible but in amongst that is excitement and that’s why we love football.

I look at the way we have developed over the last few seasons who would have thought it but we took our chance and here we are and believe me I’m truly proud and grateful.

None of us have a crystal ball so who knows how the future will unfold but wouldn’t it be exciting if we had a great finish to the season, players in the shop window, momentum for next season, generate even more interest.

So pessimist, optimist, clown even we all have one thing in common we love our club and it’s great we can have a good craic and a bit of banter.

[Suffolk Blue]

Well said. We all aspire to the same thing. It’s just how we get there that’s the issue. But as Tallow would have to concede - you have to be in it to win it.

On a positive note the fact that Whing has won 50% of the games he’s managed with a team that isn’t his and doesn’t play naturally to his style bodes really well for next season. Our form on the last 10 games has been mid-table. I’m really interested to see what he can do next season.

[Desmond2-2]

Every chairman,will start the season with optimism,saying promotion is the clubs target, And every so often,a smaller club like us, get lucky, the right manager, the right players and plenty of fortune,can bring promotion, eg,Morecambe,Accrington,Burton . The club and supporters just go with it,and enjoy there moment in time. Clubs don’t fold because of it, they find their level again.People talk about the need for more support, 3,000 for us is good,I noticed Accrington last week had less than 1600 at home, so what.

[Main Stand SeasonTct]

Well said. We all aspire to the same thing. It’s just how we get there that’s the issue. But as Tallow would have to concede - you have to be in it to win it.

On a positive note the fact that Whing has won 50% of the games he’s managed with a team that isn’t his and doesn’t play naturally to his style bodes really well for next season. Our form on the last 10 games has been mid-table. I’m really interested to see what he can do next season.

Whings remit will have been to see off the threat of relegation which barring a miracle he appears to have done.

Barring a few that are already contracted for next season he will have pretty much a blank canvas in the summer where finances permitting he can build a squad of players he wants to take us forward into next season.

The off season will be an interesting one. Will we sign players up early or leave it late.?How many of our signings will have worked with Whing before ? What loan players will we sign and from where? How big a squad will we have ? It promises to be a summer full of speculation and rumour and interest

[WillBAFC]

Well said. We all aspire to the same thing. It’s just how we get there that’s the issue. But as Tallow would have to concede - you have to be in it to win it.

On a positive note the fact that Whing has won 50% of the games he’s managed with a team that isn’t his and doesn’t play naturally to his style bodes really well for next season. Our form on the last 10 games has been mid-table. I’m really interested to see what he can do next season.

Whings remit will have been to see off the threat of relegation which barring a miracle he appears to have done.

Barring a few that are already contracted for next season he will have pretty much a blank canvas in the summer where finances permitting he can build a squad of players he wants to take us forward into next season.

The off season will be an interesting one. Will we sign players up early or leave it late.?How many of our signings will have worked with Whing before ? What loan players will we sign and from where? How big a squad will we have ? It promises to be a summer full of speculation and rumour and interest

Certainly feel there will be a huge clear out at the end be of the season. Can think of a number that will likely go onto play higher (e.g. Spence) and several that are somehow still on our books such as Kouyate, Mahoney and Kirk.

[vialli 9]

This forum sometimes has the demeanour and consistency of somebody on crystal meth.

Win a couple of games and the fantasists line up with the promotion charge. Lose at Morecambe and the killing crew will take over demanding Whing’s head.

It’s only a few days since a pretty well balanced Q&A session in which the dangers of over-reaching ourselves financially were articulated along with the point that we are still very much in the process of stabilising ourselves in the EFL.

It’s been a very messy season and in many ways a disappointing one. Are we in great shape for a promotion push even if it were possible? Get real guys.

Ahhhh some sense.... 2 Games ago we were heading into non-league oblivion , now we are league 1 bound. No we are still getting hang of League 2 , let's be grateful for that .